Peter, we’re now entering the no-spoiler zone. But while discussing your book, it’s nearly impossible to stay within that comfort
area. Tell you what I’m gonna do…I’m putting the onus on you! Tell the reader
what they’re in for.
PD: Hi, Stuart! It’s funny, but when I set out to write THE GOAT PARADE, I’d originally intended
the book to have a True Crime kind of vibe to it. But my sensibilities always
bring me back to the supernatural, and I found that I just couldn’t tell the
story the way I wanted to without introducing those elements of otherworldly
horrors. I was raised Catholic, so I’ve always had that mythology of religion
present in my life. So this book is my take on the battle between Good and
Evil, but at no moment do I use God as a character or as a Deus Ex to save the
day by the end. It’s also an allegory about the concept of Free Will and Sin.
SRW: The book opens with what feels to me like an authentically
grounded acid trip, fully realized and beautifully essayed. Um, Peter…is this
from experience? Just how much research was involved? (I’m not, nor am I
affiliated, with the DEA).
PD: Oh my god, no…I’ve never dropped acid. What I’d really
intended to do with the prologue is to set the scene for the novel, with a very
Charles Manson-esque killer and his sirens in a satanic ritual. It’s very
sexual and very creepy. If I’ve done my
job well, the book comes full-circle; starting with The Man with the Deformed
Right hand and concluding with a new Man with the Deformed Right Hand being
born to take his place.
SRW: While reading about extreme satanist Warren and his
acolytes, I couldn’t help but be reminded of Charles Manson. Hate to frame it
this way, but was Chuck an influence?
PD: I can remember being in high school when Geraldo Rivera
did his famous interview with Manson on one of his specials. The guy was so
oddly captivating that I spent decades following his profile and his life from
afar. Not that I mean to condone his actions or the terrible hurt he caused,
but that compulsion to want to know why he is so broken and so crazy has always
been there. I wanted my antagonist, Warren Pembroke, to have that same
captivating feel about him. I wanted him to have the good looks of Ted Bundy,
and the mysticism of Manson. That was my template. Manson finally died last
year, I think just after my novel was accepted by Grinning Skull Press, and I
kept thinking it was either Karma or I was the luckiest son of a bitch on
the planet. It’s almost like I made a deal with the
Devil…
SRW: Since we’re still talking influences (and making deals with the Devil), how ‘bout Robert
Johnson? I mean, even my mom knows he sold his soul to the devil at the
crossroads of Mississippi in exchange for extreme blues guitar prowess. Your
character, “Tobacco Joe” is following in his footsteps. Are you writing your
personal interests into your
characters?
PD: All of this is an extension of the Faust story, and I
think Johnson’s life has expanded that archetype to cosmic proportions. It’s
just so exemplary of the power of folklore, and I wanted my book to have that
same feel to it. The trick is to be able to create characters with different
perspectives and different cultures then your own, and tell their stories
honestly. I spent a great deal of time researching those old Delta blues-men so
I could build Joe Walton’s character and get it right. And yeah, I do love
their music, so it really wasn’t a chore.
SRW: I’ve always thought to write accurately about music,
one needs to have had experience in that field. It can be as tough as…well,
writing about writers.
Let’s try another one. Were—are?—you a hard-drinking,
burned-out journalist (and can there be any other kind)?
PD: There’s a bit of romanticism with writing and
alcoholism, isn’t there? That’s why Poe and Hemingway and all those other cats
come across as larger-than-life. I make no bones about it—I do have a problem
with alcohol, so I felt an enormous amount of empathy for what Erik Marsh was
going through. But no, I’ve never been a journalist. Erik’s character was actually the starting
point when I began writing the book. I had envisioned his character arc as
finding a sense of redemption by the end of the book. I’m a sucker for
redemption tales.
SRW: In The Goat
Parade, you mourn the death of true journalism, a vocation where men
chain-smoke indoors, stink of news, and develop armpit stains and cirrhosis of
the liver to show for it. Do you believe the lack of professionalism in
internet journalism is a sincere problem?
PD: I think it’s just gotten lazier over the years. Again,
there’s a certain romanticism about that archetype of the news reporter with
the fedora that has a “Press” label pinned to it. Even the phrase “Crime Beat”
makes me smile. It’s evocative. Nowadays we have college kids writing and
submitting news stories to Huffpost (and most likely NOT getting paid for it),
or else we have round-the-clock news stations run by global billionaires with
political agendas. There’s a reason I made a character named Truth Carson…
SRW: Your tale unfolds in several different States. The
reader witnesses racism from Portland cops and big-time racial epithets in a
Memphis blues club. Do you see racism on the rise? A by-product of our current
“state of the nation?” Or are you
bringing the horror of humanity to the foreground? (Sure, it’s a loaded
question, Peter, but pull the trigger!).
PD: I think it’s always been there, but recent events have
sharpened the edges and sharpened our perspective of it. Again, my commitment
in writing the book is to tell the story as honestly as I can. Joe Walton is an
African American male. His whole life would have been burdened with the
oppression of racism. But his character is the one protagonist in the book who
is making that “mythological” journey that scholars like Joseph Campbell love
to critique. And I had a singular goal with Joe’s journey: I wanted to present
a character going through the process of dehumanization as far as I could take
him, and see if Free Will still existed at the end, and if he’d be willing to
choose to do the right thing. That journey exposes the horrors of our modern
day reality.
SRW: You also capture the unique rhythms of Portland with
the diverse melting pot of inhabitants, the partying, the bars, the outdoor
cafes, and street performers. Meanwhile, across the States, following another
character, you’re belting out the blues in a sweaty, seedy Memphis blues bar. Have
you visited these unique cities?
PD: I’ve never been to Tennessee, but in a real twist of
serendipity, my family will be vacationing there this year.
But I HAVE been to cities like New Orleans, and with a bit of Google research
it was fairly easy to get the vibe I was looking for. But the book does follow Joe’s journey
through many states, and the whole episode in Albany is real because I grew up
there. I lived in Portland for several years, and it really is the hub for the
whole state, so that was a no-brainer for me as well.
SRW: The character of Svetlana is awesome. I don’t usually
fall for love stories in horror books, but it really works well here.
Svetlana’s a displaced Serbian acrobat/social worker who can turn the world on
with her smile. My investment in her character raised the stakes for me. Nicely
done. Characterization in horror is so important and some writers forget this,
choosing to write them as fodder and chum. But all four of your leads are
fleshed out quite nicely. Are any of them based upon people you know?
PD: It’s funny that you mentioned this, Stuart. As I was
rereading the book while in the process of going through the edits, I found
myself falling in love with Svetlana, and that’s never happened to me before
with one of my characters. I read your question and in the back of my head I
heard the Mary Tyler Moore theme song, and I think that was exactly the
template I wanted when I wrote her. But to answer your question, I didn’t base
any of the characters on people I know, with the exception of Warren
Pembroke. I based them on concepts and
personalities that were fluid and could be easily manipulated to move the story
in the directions I wanted them to. The readers can ascribe their own interpretations
of who they’re reminded of.
SRW: Throughout The
Goat Parade, you kept me guessing as to whether supernatural underpinnings
were at play. Without giving too much away, the Devil plays an active role in
at least two of your characters’ tales. Yet these characters are so unstable and
unreliable, the reader’s kept off guard as to whether “Ol’ Scratch” truly exists
or is a figment of delusion or worse. This is an extremely unpredictable book
and I love that. What’s more frightening to you, things that can’t be explained
or the horrors humanity is capable of?
PD: That’s a damn good question. Like I said earlier, my
sensibilities always drift toward supernatural fiction, because that’s what
interests me. But for true horror, the inhumanity of our society wins every
time. I think that’s why we’re seeing an upswing in the genre; because people
turn to us to escape all the terrible stuff that’s going on right now. Brian Keene posited on his podcast very
recently that eras where republicans control the government have a positive
impact on genre fiction, and I feel inclined to agree with him.
SRW: Thank you, President Trump! You also keep the reader guessing how the divergent
tales of Warren, Erik, Svetlana and Joe are going to collide. Not only are they
separated in plot, but distance, too. I experienced an impending sense of
apocalyptic doom and dread. What do you want the reader to take away from the
book?
PD: I think the best kind of books are the ones that have
ramifications to ponder long after the reader has finished it. Like I said
earlier, I wanted this to be an allegory about Free Will and our ability to
choose to do what’s right. We take for granted a lot of stuff based on American
Elitism, and because of that we are slowly forgetting how to empathize with
people in other countries, who have little or no choice at all about how they
live. If readers are thinking at all about my book after they’ve finished
reading, I think that’s good enough for me. I want them to feel entertained,
and that they got their money’s worth.
SRW: Let’s chat about the symbolism of goats. In your novel,
Warren paraphrases the Bible (although I kinda think he’s quoting the Cake
song) that “Sheep go to Heaven and goats go to Hell.” Traditionally, sheep are
considered mild, docile, and mindless followers. The way “good people” are
labeled. (Although I like Hitchcock’s quote that actors are like cattle.) While
the rebel rousers and trouble-makers—the goats—are “bad people.” The crux of
the book has Warren gathering his goats for a “parade.” Am I missing any goat
symbolism? Anything beyond the obvious symbolism of Warren’s deformity and the titular
parade? Putting WAY too much thought into this?
PD: I love Cake! I think you nailed pretty much what I
wanted to convey with the symbolism. I kept thinking while I was writing it, If children are like lambs, how terrible it
would be if someone decided they wanted to transform that sense of innocence
and make them goats. As a horror writer, I feel a need to write something
frightening enough to scare myself. This story did that. As a parent, this book
scares the shit out of me. Warren’s
deformity is a mark of possession. He spends a great deal of time contemplating
that sense of Déjà vu throughout the book. Hopefully, my ending fills in those
blanks.
SRW: A major theme in Goat
Parade is the question of free will. You don’t get preachy, yet all of your
characters struggle whether they have life choices. At first, Joe believes he
can change his date with the devil, but ultimately gives up. Svetlana believes
that serendipity leads her. Eric is on the fence and Warren…well, he’s Warren;
responsibility and guilt don’t apply to Warren. Heady stuff for a horror book.
Which side of the fence do you fall over?
PD: I think the ability to make a choice isn’t exactly the
same as having Free Will because we’re still governed by circumstances and laws
of physics and man-made laws and lots of other factors. I think it’s all a great
illusion at its core. I love the notion of serendipity. And Karma. If you offered me hopes and prayers or a
pocketful of good luck, I’d choose good luck every time.
SRW: Svetlana explains the difference between fate and
serendipity. Agreed?
PD: Yes. God, I love Svetlana. Serendipity is almost like religion for her.
And she feeds it by using this almost curse she’s been given to help others
rather than help herself. I love that she works a job AND performs her street
show to get by, but is then generous with how she lives.
SRW: I kinda get the feeling you’re a glass half empty kinda
guy, Peter. Based on this book, I’m assuming there aren’t a whole lotta Happily
Ever Afters in the Dudarverse. Am I correct in this assumption?
PD: Muahahahahaha. I just had this discussion with my mom
recently. She doesn’t read horror because horror almost never has a happy
ending. There’s a correlation between horror and dark endings for the sake of
telling a story honestly. Technically, THE EXORCIST has a happy ending because
Regan McNeil has been freed from her possession, but is it REALLY a happy
ending? In all honesty, outside of horror, I’m a sucker for happy endings. It’s
why I cry at almost every Disney movie I see.
SRW: Well, your book certainly shook me as I know it will
anyone else who gives it a read. I really enjoyed the inevitable “meet
horrible” of your characters. Definitely gave me a Koontz and King epic
road-trip sorta vibe (and I caught that Castle Rock reference!). Inspirations?
PD: Oh gosh, I love King. Way too many inspirations to count
them all, but I love Laymon, Hautala, Clegg, Straub, and Ellison. From our
contemporary authors, L.L. Soares, Kristen Dearborn, Ed Kurtz, Bracken MacLeod,
Stacey Longo, Josh Malerman, April Hawks, Morgan Sylvia, and Tony Tremblay.
SRW: What’s up with the “Omniscient Eye?” (I was kinda
surprised to see it has a web presence…but then again, so do funny cat photos).
PD: Azezel’s Eye! Yeah, it’s not exactly “omniscient” in the
book—it can only see into people’s pasts and not their futures. If it could see
their futures, then Fate becomes absolute and unchanging. I wanted each
character’s future to be undetermined and unforeseeable, so I had to place that
limitation. But I love that concept of the Omniscient Eye. It has a mythology
of its own. It’s everywhere. Any time you hold a dollar bill in your hand, it’s
right there. And that’s not even bringing up security cameras and all the ways
we’re constantly being watched all the time. Privacy is becoming an illusion.
That scares me.
SRW: Tell us what’s next on your laptop of horror.
PD: I just finished making a round of short story
submissions for early 2018. Now I’m on to beginning a new book, tentatively
titled “The Butterfly Goddess”. I’ve been working out plot and characters in my
head for about six months now, so I really need to put those thoughts onto
paper.
SRW: Where can readers find your work? Or where do you hang out
for the stalkers?
PD: I have an author page on Amazon. Just type in Peter N.Dudar and you’ll see me smiling at you. I also have an author page on Facebook
and a presence both on Twitter and Instagram. Beyond that, I’m also a member of
the New England Horror Writers and The Tuesday Mayhem Society, so if you look
those pages up on Facebook, you’re liable to bump into me.
SRW: Thanks much for chatting, Peter. Folks, do yourself a
favor and go pick up The Goat Parade.
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